‘If England appointing a German boss is a major concern, the lack of black managers should be too – people are only interested because it's affecting white English managers, let's not pretend’: John Barnes gives his views on the Thomas Tuchel debate

LONDON, ENGLAND - JUNE 05: Ex England and Liverpool footballer John Barnes talks to the media during the Big Jubilee Lunch at Wembley Stadium on June 5, 2022 in London, England. (Photo by Barrington Coombs - The FA/The FA via Getty Images)
John Barnes (Image credit: Getty Images)

England’s appointment of Thomas Tuchel has divided opinion in recent weeks – but John Barnes has questioned why the lack of black managers doesn’t generate the same debate.

Tuchel was recently installed as the new Three Lions boss, after previously winning the Champions League with Chelsea and claiming domestic titles with both Paris Saint-Germain and Bayern Munich.

While a large number of people have been supportive of Tuchel’s appointment, there have been plenty also who have insisted that the England team should not have a German manager, and that English bosses aren’t getting enough opportunities to prove themselves at the top level.

England great John Barnes speaks out

John Barnes in action for England in 1988

John Barnes in action for England in 1988 (Image credit: Getty Images)

John Barnes represented England on 79 occasions, before moving into management with Celtic, Jamaica and Tranmere Rovers.

The Liverpool and Three Lions great has long insisted that black managers do not get enough opportunities in English football, and are not given as much time to succeed when they are handed managerial jobs.

Assessing the debate over Tuchel’s appointment, he questions why there’s not the same energy spent discussing the lack of opportunities given to black managers.

Celtic v Rangers John Barnes

John Barnes while at Celtic (Image credit: Ben Curtis)

“The situation is this: I don't believe that there's an English manager who's been given enough time or respect or an opportunity to manage at the highest level,” he said.

“You would assume that the next England manager is someone who would have been successful at a top club.

“Gareth Southgate was an anomaly because he came from the under 21s impressed and got the job full-time. There wasn’t an outstanding candidate at the time and the FA gave him the job.

“During the recruitment process, you would have thought that the FA would have liked to have considered a successful English manager managing in the Premier League, but there weren’t any because there are no English managers who are given that opportunity.

“Are we saying that English managers aren’t good enough? Or are we saying that football isn't giving English managers an opportunity at the highest level for those managers to become good enough?

“There’s another demographic of managers who haven’t been given those opportunities, black managers. Why isn’t anybody asking those questions?

“Why are we asking the questions about the England manager and saying it’s a disgrace that English managers aren’t being given an opportunity, when there are lots of black managers who aren’t given opportunities?

“Why are no black managers being given an opportunity even lower down the football pyramid? Why are there no black managers being given a chance at any level?

Thomas Tuchel poses for a photo at Wembley Stadium after being announced as the new England manager in October 2024.

Thomas Tuchel (Image credit: Getty Images)

“In League One and League Two, more than 90 per cent of the managers are English. They may not get opportunities to manage at the highest level, they may not even have been that successful in previous roles, but they’re getting the chance to show what they can do, whereas black managers don’t even get that opportunity.

“It seems to me that the lack of black managers isn’t a concern in this country, but the fact that England can appoint a German manager is a major concern.

“When white managers moan about the decision to appoint Tuchel, then that’s a problem, but black managers aren’t being given a chance at all.”

Damning statistics

John Barnes

John Barnes

Barnes is keen to clarify that he does support the suggestions that English managers aren’t being given enough opportunities, but he wants the debate to be wider than just that.

“The England manager situation has nothing to do with black managers – the complaints are about white English managers not getting opportunities, which is something that I agree with,” he said, speaking via Lucky Block.

“It’s a fact: English managers are not getting chances. That’s down to the perception that English managers are inferior to their foreign colleagues. The perception is the major problem here, but if we’re talking about that as a problem, then I want us to start talking about the perception of black managers because it’s a very similar situation.

“The perception of black managers is that they're not good enough. The perception of white English managers is that they're not good enough, but we seem to want to address that, and a lot of people are now talking about it. Everyone’s saying it's a disgrace. But this has been going on for how many years?

“In football, an industry where there are more than 45 per cent black players, how many black managers are there? I will really get involved in this conversation when we start to look at it in a fair manner that addresses the concerns of black managers too.

“People are only interested in it now because it’s affecting white English managers. They weren’t interested with a disenfranchised group who are being neglected, being marginalised. No-one cares about them, but now we have to care about these English managers?

Thomas Tuchel has been appointed the new England manager

Thomas Tuchel (Image credit: Getty Images)

“When you ask other people and other pundits, they'll say ‘Maybe they're not good enough.’

"When those same people say that about English managers or coaches, they then say ‘Let’s create an environment to make them better’, be it coaching in the FA, coming up with a coaching programme, and they get back on the management merry-go-round again.

“Ninety nine per cent of these guys are being given jobs in League One and League Two. If the black ones aren’t good enough, why not give them jobs in League One and League Two, just like the white English managers who aren’t good enough?

“We’re really not interested, and that’s the situation, so let’s not pretend. October, Black History Month, comes along, and every now and again they discuss black managers: ‘We’ll see what happens until next October and we’ll discuss it again’. Let's hope that the English managers don't have that problem.”

Chris Flanagan
Senior Staff Writer

Chris joined FourFourTwo in 2015 and has reported from 20 countries, in places as varied as Jerusalem and the Arctic Circle. He's interviewed Pele, Zlatan and Santa Claus (it's a long story), as well as covering the World Cup, Euro 2020 and the Clasico. He previously spent 10 years as a newspaper journalist, and completed the 92 in 2017.